Good morning/afternoon/evening. We won’t keep you long, we just want to ask your opinions on something…
FFF have been approached by a printing company, who have offered us 1000 business cards and a free canvas print, for a prize giveaway on our site. In return we’ll post a brief description about them, and provide two link-backs to their site. We couldn’t decide whether this was sweet free stuff for our loyal visitors, or… whether it would make us corporate pawns, prostituting ourselves to The Man?
What do you fair minded folks think? Should we put a post up for them, or not? Yay or Nay?
Add Share
27th Feb 2009
10:44 am
yay – as long as they’re good and worth promoting
why not? seems like a win-win situation to me
twentyfour
27th Feb 2009
10:53 am
It’s not a question of being a corporate pawn. We all know people need to make money, or sell stuff to make it. We can’t all be JUST artists.
Selling out isn’t selling out if you’re working with the people you want to work with. If it means sacrificing your drive, ideas and passion in exchange for money – THAT’S SELLING OUT.
When things in the industry become JUST about money, that’s when the magic is lost. And working in that industry means you can’t be true to what you really love.
But sometimes, you got to do stuff for money as well. And sell out. But let’s keep it to a bare minimum – to have something to eat, drink and clothes to wear.
Ivan
27th Feb 2009
10:53 am
Nothing wrong with prostituting yourself to the “The Man”!!! There’s no harm in promoting these guys. You scratch their back and they’ll scratch yours. I would do it Jack… DO IT!!!
P.S Could I have the printed canvas? My flat is looking bare!
mose
27th Feb 2009
10:59 am
yeah go for it.
Nick
27th Feb 2009
11:02 am
fuck it, I think everyone could use a helping hand in times like this.
Jack
27th Feb 2009
11:04 am
Ok guys, that’s Yay 2- Nay 0
any others before we decide?
Nick
27th Feb 2009
11:07 am
doooo it!
Patswerk
27th Feb 2009
11:12 am
Yay. Do it. If it’s a good printer, why not?
Phil
27th Feb 2009
11:14 am
careful now. If you accept this, then what’s next? It just might snowball and your site will end up looking like a promotional christmas tree. I say hold out, don’t give in, at least until they offer you a car anyway.
James Le Beau-Morley
27th Feb 2009
11:15 am
I’m wondering why a printing company could be considered “the man”?
Johan
27th Feb 2009
11:32 am
Yay…
Jon
27th Feb 2009
11:34 am
Do it!
jordan
27th Feb 2009
11:39 am
I would hold out for more — what about a reduced rate for the next FFF collaboration project!? Never accept the terms that are imposed on you, always create your own!
Ivan
27th Feb 2009
11:48 am
Nothing wrong with prostituting yourself to the “The Man”!!! There’s no harm in promoting these guys. You scratch their back and they’ll scratch yours. I would do it Jack… DO IT!!!
P.S Could I have the printed canvas? My flat is looking bare!
Neil
27th Feb 2009
11:50 am
Like Jordan says – negotiate like a mother!
Bruno
27th Feb 2009
11:54 am
Yay because in moments like this we should all help each other and i dont think that will in any way reduce the interest we have in viewing your great website.
Jack
27th Feb 2009
11:56 am
Hmm, interesting idea Jordan. We’ve got a couple of irons in the fire print-wise for the next FFF printed project already, but wouldn’t rule anything out.
Jack
27th Feb 2009
11:59 am
Right, everyone seems pretty positive so far, so should we just go for it?
Will
27th Feb 2009
12:00 pm
I agree with Nick, I think you should go for it.
Naysayer
27th Feb 2009
12:11 pm
Doesn’t seem a balanced deal.
What they’re offering you will be quickly dispersed/dated where they get a permanent link and association with FFF. If the relationship sours they still have their link and your original recommendation and you have?…
Time limit the link or ask for more (e.g. entire stationary and promo pack)
andy
27th Feb 2009
12:14 pm
i think you should think your self lucky jack!!!
so you are taking bribes for a post of here!
typical weeegie..
ask for a spot varnish to..
why not
ill give you a 10p mix up if you post my new web site??
Dan
27th Feb 2009
12:15 pm
I don\’t want to throw a spanner in the works, and in principle, it sounds like a clean and simple exchange. But you can\’t help worrying about setting a president? I mean, once you\’ve loosened the ideals a little, what\’s to stop it been moved a little further next time?
Maybe I\’m overthinking this but it\’s worth a mention me thinks,
Jamie
27th Feb 2009
12:23 pm
I don\’t see the harm in it, everyone seems smart enough to not let it sell out!
Maybe think Obama, and embrace change…
Jack
27th Feb 2009
12:35 pm
Thanks for the feedback guys, great to hear what you all think.
@ Naysayer
It would be a standard post we’d be offering, so, like all posts it would be replaced by others of the course of a few days.
@ Bruno
Nice way of looking at it, cheers.
@ andy
Firstly, you are a sausage! Secondly, the cards/prints would be offered as prizes to you guys on the site, so not really us getting bribed. Although, if we keep a wee canvas for ourselves, who can blame us?
@ Dan
We know why people visit the site, primarily to find some interesting design goodness, so there’s no way we’ll go overboard with this type of post. Also, with the design of the new FFF site well underway, we’ll have space for a few selective, creative industry related ads, keeping typical posts soley inspiration related. Good point though.
connie
27th Feb 2009
12:35 pm
I say go for it, I mean at the end of the day you’re trafficking through a lot of designers/printers/sweet work, and if they aren’t great then they’ll just fall through the cracks…whereas if they’re good, that will be acknowledged by your readership.
Have they ever printed anything particularly experimental or worth mentioning in the first place? Seek it out ^_^ !
Viv
27th Feb 2009
12:40 pm
Im pleased you have asked for the reaction of FFF users as this, as has been said before, could set a dangerous president.
I would be very wary to agree as FFF is meant to be for the sharing of great design and not for the promotion of companies who can afford to add incentives.
A link that is posted as a business venture wont have the passion and excitement behind it that you obviously have for the other work you post/link.
This love for design should be what fuels your site, not advertisements.
No.
Gui Seiz
27th Feb 2009
12:41 pm
ad revenue eh??
and are these loyal contributors about to get $$$?
also – if its related – then do it.
its not like you\’re putting EasyJet ads up.
it\’s blog post. be a man about it.
thom
27th Feb 2009
12:45 pm
Vistaprint?
Only joking.
Yeah I think its a good idea, but a confusing one too
Hmmmmm…
I think if you see whether they have a good quality of finish etc, before you decide, then +1 from me. But at the same time this opens up a gateway to loads of other sh¡t you’ll receive.
—
Also why is the flickr pool called fleuron now?
Gui Seiz
27th Feb 2009
12:53 pm
also people..
to to be ‘that guy’ but.
President
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President
Precedent
http://tinyurl.com/cu33mm
Chris
27th Feb 2009
1:00 pm
If the printer is good do it,
if they are a prontoprint leave it.
Simple as.
Dan
27th Feb 2009
1:13 pm
Well spotted Gui, my mistake!
and while we’re at the word definition web linking game:
Pedantic
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedantic
Mick
27th Feb 2009
1:35 pm
it just depends whether it will benefit your visitors, as well as yourselves and the printing company. If you think it will be of benefit to the many freelancers and students visiting your site, dont look at it as ‘selling your soul’, but helping your visitors.
Mike
27th Feb 2009
1:59 pm
I would just do it
Jordan
27th Feb 2009
2:21 pm
I wouldn’t do it.
This site is and never was about selling or giveaways or advertising. It was about finding, sharing and appreciating. If it was about advertising, I would lose a lot of respect for the integrity of your decision making.
And it sounds like the beginning of a slippery slope…
But if you do slip down it, I will give your visitors a free giveaway if you feature my shitty website.
Maarten
27th Feb 2009
2:21 pm
why should you want an give-away.
you\\\’re already everyday giving away beautifull designs.
that\\\’s more than enough I think.
skip the trick.
Jim
27th Feb 2009
2:29 pm
I’d only do it if they’re any good. Being acquainted with shit isn’t good. PLus you don’t want this site to end up looking like smashing magazine, do you?
Chris
27th Feb 2009
2:33 pm
never say no to somthing free
Rob
27th Feb 2009
2:52 pm
Simple – if they are decent printers, yes!
If not, bin them!
Because once you start down that road…
jordan
27th Feb 2009
2:54 pm
Be creative and make it a creative endeavour. Run a competition and collaborate with FFF readers and the printers to create a nice piece of work that people want to see — rather than it being a sleazy (I feel dirty) back hander. Surely this is a better way to promote both parties in the industry we operate.
Philip
27th Feb 2009
2:57 pm
HEy FFF, wanna give a brief description of me in return for some old card, a small piece of string and a few mostly unused post-it notes?
Joking aside; kudos for putting the issue to the readers – thats a really decent thing to do… but yeah, I echo Maarten on this one.
NOT AN IDIOT
27th Feb 2009
2:59 pm
You certainly can’t do it now, everyone knows about it.
Narelle
27th Feb 2009
3:07 pm
It’s your website, go for it if you want to! Plus, if they’re good printers then it’s information we’d like anyway.
Dustin
27th Feb 2009
3:59 pm
Yay – if they are a company that you would recommend to a friend.
Nay – if they suck and you tell us they don’t.
ish
27th Feb 2009
3:59 pm
If they’ve good stuff – go for it! – Maybe you’d have done it anyway without their asking…
TA
27th Feb 2009
4:10 pm
YES DO IT!
james griffin
27th Feb 2009
4:49 pm
Do it guys. If its a case of a few posts once in a while that may infact benefit the readers then its win win. Dont however place loads of horrible banners on your site. I love it just the way it is!
James
Ryan
27th Feb 2009
5:00 pm
I would say yes, but they need to offer more than trade. They should be compensating you well to clutter up the nice white space of the blog with originally unwanted ads.
This is a popular blog, and you deserve compensation for it. Yes you will be selling out to “the man” but is it worth the price?
jdh
27th Feb 2009
5:13 pm
unless they’re selling guns or cigarettes or babyskin-shoes or something GO FOR IT!
I’m happy to see you guys capitalize on your success and hard-work!
Daniel
27th Feb 2009
5:14 pm
Yes Yes Yes
Stephen
27th Feb 2009
5:16 pm
I would say no… purely a gut reaction though
Dan
27th Feb 2009
5:17 pm
yes only if you research them and approve of what they do. You don’t want to put some run-of-the-mill garbage mass production printing company who’s looking to expand their clientelle by 2000% in the next fiscal year. though free stuff is cool just make sure their work is clever and worth promoting.
Louis
27th Feb 2009
5:35 pm
no
Anabelle
27th Feb 2009
5:53 pm
I think it could be a great opportunity for both side. If you think it might head towards the wrong side of the path, then shut it down.
Keep up the good work crew!
Luke Tonge
27th Feb 2009
6:07 pm
I’m all for printers getting promoted – especially the underdogs – as a design serving field they’re a part of our world. I’d just recommend highlighting anything that is sponsored very clearly as such or making a smaller section on the site somewhere for business plugs etc.
To slip in paid items amongst all the usual goodness unannounced would feel a bit sneaky/corrupt to me.
W
27th Feb 2009
6:11 pm
we already know you aren’t sold out. we know you aren’t corporate pawns. this is just a great opportunity for them! artists help out other people. right?
Erich
27th Feb 2009
6:17 pm
Because this is a blog and not an obvious commercial enterprise, any promotional material you post will be perceived as an personal endorsement. If you’ve worked with the printer in question and have been satisfied with the service they provide, then that’s fine. But if you have no first-hand experience with them and you have no idea about the level of service they provide, you’re putting your own personal credibility on the line.
I have no issues with revenue generation as long as there’s transparency. If you want to go from being a “blog” to being a for-profit “online magazine”, then make it clear to people. You should also make it clear whether your blog posts are “for sale”. Legitimate journalists would say no but when it comes to blogs, there are no rules.
In the end, the user decides if what you have to offer has value to them. And if the quality of the posts suffer or become compromised, they’ll just switch to one of many other design blogs out there.
Zach
27th Feb 2009
6:34 pm
I think this is a great opportunity to not only get something in return for all the hard work you put into the website but also promote a company, whom is doing a great a job.
I think with the present state of affairs, not to mention that fact that you asked for your reader’s input, shows a real dedication to quality and a desire to be transparent with your readers. Integrity gentlemen.
Go for it.
albin
27th Feb 2009
7:04 pm
Of course you should do it! I mean, you provide up’n'coming designers 50 clicks of fame for free!
You’ve deserved it! And go ahead and keep a canvas for yourselves too!
I assume it’s a good printer.
my 2 öre!
Bil
27th Feb 2009
7:10 pm
Selling out = giving away free viagra or rolling in a huge yacht with a white suit.
Bartering with another creative group that is going to have spend time and money at the hands of its staff, should be cool.
Not to mention you already sold them out, by posting the details of the deal rather than running the promotion as your editorial prerogative.
dave
27th Feb 2009
7:26 pm
let your doubt be your compass. or, if you have to ask then you already know the answer.
Milan
27th Feb 2009
7:46 pm
Do what you gotta do – I wouldn’t mind anything free these days! I understand FFF prouds itself on being an independent, but to support others in their business is not becoming a business yourself.
Petri
27th Feb 2009
8:03 pm
Simply yay.
tom
27th Feb 2009
9:23 pm
Why not, you can do it. Better to do this in any more creative way, some invention is welcome of course
molly
27th Feb 2009
9:58 pm
Do it if it’s work you’d be happy featuring. Don’t do it if it’s something that makes you vomit. But I’m all for free stuff.
suzi
27th Feb 2009
10:38 pm
57 comments before I’m writing mine… Have you had that many people comment a post before?
Mike
27th Feb 2009
11:22 pm
Kinda like jordans idea of having a comp.
like try and get the printer a little invlolved with the people who read FFF, rather than just an advert
KAPETAN
27th Feb 2009
11:39 pm
YOU GOT HEART AND SOUL!!!!!!
it’s worth much more…
john
28th Feb 2009
3:56 am
Seems like a good idea but could be the start of something bad once the advertising revenues start coming in the essence of this brilliant site may be lost. Maintain
RodrigoFrancisco
28th Feb 2009
4:16 am
yay
Jimmy Buffet
28th Feb 2009
7:08 am
I\’m pretty sure the \"printing company\" has already offered the same thing to other people – so if you reject their offer, it\’ll just be someone else, along with a whole bunch of others.
But, its also good to pay the bills from time to time. And if not the bills in this instance, than, it\’s also good to get free stuff from time to time.
Barry
28th Feb 2009
10:59 am
1000 cards and a canvas print isn’t that much for a printing company…(just my humble opinion)
Mark
28th Feb 2009
11:08 am
I\’d consider what sort of printer it was. If the printer fits in the FFF ethos then I don\’t see it as a massive problem.
We\’ve posted printers before:
Team Impression – http://www.formfiftyfive.com/?p=1708
PUSH – http://www.formfiftyfive.com/?p=3994
Does the \’payment\’ benefit FFF at all, or just the people who enter a competition? There are companies who do free business cards on the internet, so the printer would have to be a few levels above that in terms of servicing the creative designer.
M.
l
28th Feb 2009
1:10 pm
Is not a fair change
Tom
28th Feb 2009
1:26 pm
‘for a creative person starting out on a career, try not thinking about film or media or whatever.
Think about the money. it’s honest.’
- paul arden
Eliot
28th Feb 2009
2:54 pm
Demand more – your worth it & their getting a lot of interest from this already!
Greig
28th Feb 2009
3:49 pm
75 comments? is that a FFF record?
(Make that 76)
Victor
28th Feb 2009
4:54 pm
go for it.
win-win
just dont let yourselves slip.
akrokdesign
28th Feb 2009
6:25 pm
based on how many visitors you got, i think your selling your self a bit cheap. aim higher.
Jack
28th Feb 2009
6:45 pm
Wow, we didn’t expect such large response, so quickly; to answer Greig’s question, think this breaks the comment record, by quite a bit, which gives us a nice warm feeling inside.
After thinking about the offer we’ve decided to put any commercial-type posts (however small-time) on hold. As mentioned earlier the design of the new FFF site is well underway. This new site will feature a specific ‘Support’ section, where we plan to have a small selection of relevant ads – don’t worry, no Google Adwords in sight. Promise.
As things stand, were just not 100% comfortable mixing promotions with our regular content, we’d like a clear divide between the two which the new site will allow.
Also, it’s worth noting that if we do make any money from our Support section, it will be going towards developing future projects such as 6×10, and paying for our hosting costs, which until now we’ve dipped into our own pockets for. We won’t be buying any diamond encrusted vinyl toys or platinum Powerbooks. Yet.
Anyway, thanks again for all the feedback, it was interesting to hear what you all think and we really appreciate it.
Glenn
1st Mar 2009
10:59 am
What J said!
Thanks everyone.
UltiMatt
1st Mar 2009
2:47 pm
I think by putting this post you are making clear the economy. If ordinary posts that we all enjoy every day were, behind the scenes, being exchanged for money / services / favours, then that would totally undermine the whole site and I for one would probably stop visiting. It’s a trust issue – by being open and honest about it, you guys are totally fine – do it I reckon.
Dave G
1st Mar 2009
9:13 pm
Ge orrr.
We submit our BC’s on a sheet of 25, it ends up costing us £13 per card.
£13 for advertising on a site that alot of designers look at is slightly underselling yourselves.
Stop selling out, i dont come on here to be bombarded by advertising… or do i???
Caspian
2nd Mar 2009
5:34 am
Just because you accept advertising doesn’t necessarily devalue the product. Especially if the advertising is creative in its approach. So I’d say go for it. Just keep being picky and don’t just open the door wide and make life harder for me to see the good stuff I have become used to seeing here.
Irene
2nd Mar 2009
9:53 am
Yay, why not – can’t do any harm
Paul
2nd Mar 2009
11:46 am
This is one of those rare places where sharing and discussion of interesting, innovative and exciting visual and graphic imagery and ideas takes place without the invasion of, as Ivan says “the Man” there is an opportunity to make a stand out of principle. But of course on the other hand it seems like a good deal and its not forever.
ed
2nd Mar 2009
1:59 pm
who is this man that everyones so ‘fraid of..?
John Instruct
3rd Mar 2009
11:48 am
In times like these we should be helping printers out, it’s hardly an advertisement for Cola and is pretty relevant to a lot of readers.